Traveller-digest      Tuesday, October 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1161



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Downport trouble...
Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar
XML for Traveller, iteration 1
RE: Traveller Versions
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Democracy and Traveller
DGP question (OT)
On the subject of Interstellar Democracy
Re: Bagpipes (was: Re: Gurkhas - Correction)
Re: Traveller Versions
Re: MT and TNE designs
Re: MT and TNE designs
Re: MT and TNE designs
Re: MT and TNE designs
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: Democracy and Traveller
Re: DGP question (OT)
Re: Downport trouble... 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:47:08 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar

Joseph Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
<snipped>
>I also wish that GT were metric -- it just feels more futuristic 
>and sensible and, for me at least, it's easier to use for things 
>like vehicle design.

	Tell that to the people at NASA!

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:51 EDT
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

In a message dated 10/5/99 3:42:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tiamat@tsoft.com 
writes:

<< What about online democracy?  If everyone has net.access, and the
 representatives are obliged to vote as their constituents direct, this
 might actually work-- mightn't it?  Of course, decisions would be made
 slowly; one couldn't respond to an immediate threat this way.
 
 Kiri
  >>

    Here's where travel time does come into play.  It just doesn't work in 
Traveller.   Also if you have online democracy, then why do you need 
representatives at all?

    Next, Who decides the agendas of bills to be voted upon?  Who decides how 
they will be written and worded?  Here you would need a governmental body 
that because of the vast size of the poplation couldn't be democratic in any 
real sense.  

    Even the Athenians had a governing council that drew up the meeting 
agenda.  For them, the members were drawn by lot rotating between electoral 
districts, so it was braodly representative and democratic.   But again this 
would be impossible in the 3i.

    Dave Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:41:12 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> types out:
 >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 AveNelso@aol.com wrote:
 >> I think the real problem with democracy in Traveller isn't travel time, so
 >> much as it is shear mass of people.   If each world gets a representative,
 >> that's 10,000 reps.  Each one of these representatives "represents" 
anywhere
 >> from a few thousand to 10,000,000,000 people.   Can your really have an
 >> accountable, representative official who takes into account the needs of
 >> 10,000,000,000 people?   And if he is only one of 10,000 
representatives, how
 >> much real voice do the people have?    Democracy at this level would 
really
 >> be a sham, an image or a convenient fiction.
 >>
 >What about online democracy?  If everyone has net.access, and the
 >representatives are obliged to vote as their constituents direct, this
 >might actually work-- mightn't it?  Of course, decisions would be made
 >slowly; one couldn't respond to an immediate threat this way.

A true democracy requires a well educated, caring population.
Even if *everyone* had net.access, it's another step to get them to vote.
Can you see planetary LEOs rounding up 'vote dodgers'  to do community 
service work for failing to vote?

It's interesting to watch what Congress does now near election 
times.  Those overnight polls can drive or kill legislation.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:47:41 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Downport trouble...

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Or have they found a way around Shannon's law?

Sheesh. There are a lot of hands to wave when it comes to the violation of
physical laws in Traveller, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Without
Shannon's law, things go a little crazy. Like you can support a nearly
infinite number of wireless phones on a teeny-tiny chunk of wireless
bandwidth. And XBoats would be able to carry around the entire accumulated
knowledge of the entire Third Imperium and transfer it in negligible time.

You'd have things like entire encyclopedias written in one scratch on a stick.
(See, you take the two lengths on either side of the scratch and make a ratio.
Then you convert the ratio, which is just some really, really long real number
into a binary representation and then start breaking it into 8-bit chunks...
it's just a question of how carefully you can measure).

I mean, what do you want to break next? Pick a law (brain strains to remember
physical laws named after people... unnnggghhhhh) - Snell's Law? Newton's Law? 

Anyway, x-ray laser diodes are an interesting thought and they're probably
pretty safe as long as the power levels are kept low. My only problem would be
building a receiver. It's like have a neutrino communicator - sure, you can
generate the damn things and even code a signal on them - it's the detection
that's the tough part. 

Most of the problems relating to wireless bandwidth availability in the real
world are related to laws & regulatory issues, not technical ones. everyone
could have a cell phone capable of ISDN-like speeds or greater, if government
regulatory agencies were willing to erase existing frequency allocations. If
you got to start from scratch we'd have a much simpler frequency allocation
setup with much larger chunks of bandwidth. Also, I'm sure that things like
radio and TV would get much, much smaller allocations, if any. I mean,
compared to the demand for personal communication, is there really a need for
space for several dozen television stations over the air?

If we could start from scratch, the bandwidth breakdown would probably go to a
few major categories:

 - terrestrial personal communications (cell phones)
 - satellite personal communications (satellite-based cell phones)
 - high-bandwidth wireless backbones (point-to-point only)
 - GPS (satellite positioning systems)
 - entertainment (some radio & video)
 - military (which they can subdivide as they please)

I would expect that everything except the military would be purely digital, as
you can usually squeeze a lot more in that may (to the limit of Shannon's law)
and that there would be large, continuous chunks, unlike current schemes. See
http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/freqchart.html and
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/sf01608e.html and
http://www.jsc.mil/images/speccht.jpg for an example of what a freakin' mess
things are around here right now.

Alternatively, some planets might take a more FCC-type approach and simply
carve up all the bandwidth into chunks then auction or sell them off to
whomever wants them. 

I imagine that megacorps play a big role in determining over-the-air frequency
allocations, as they're the ones who are selling you the equipment. Chances
are most planets will buy one of half a dozen personal communications
infrastructure packages so there will be a surprising amount of compatability
from world to world. There are some huge economies of scale to exploit in
Imperial space that will create de facto standards without any need for
regulatory intervention from the Imperial government.

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:05:28 +0100
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar

>However my
>bigest gripe is the Imperial mesurements used in the game (as a metric
>user, how am I suppose to know that there are 2000lbs in a ton?!?!).

As Traveller is set in the Third 'Imperium' its only common sense that we
use an 'Imperial' measurement system. ;-)

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:19:54 -0500
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: XML for Traveller, iteration 1

Gentle Travellers of All Ages and Orientations [CT, MT, ... ,GT],

Mark Ayers and I are gathering basic information to create XML
representations for Traveller data.  Here's what we have so far.  If
you have some ideas, post TML or email me
(eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com).

Out strategy is to identify the data domain first, starting down from
the top levels of abstraction, and then start applying XML-specific
structure to it.

Rob


<MarkAyers>
For a character (which seems to be where I have focused so far) I'd start
with what a character sheet would include.
My first step would be to break out the parts
A character is a collection of
        Attributes
        Skills
        Experiences
        Possessions
        Etc.
An attribute is ...
A skill is ...
An experience is ...
A possession is ...
Once I had these I'd look further and further into the details.
</MarkAyers>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:24:13 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:43:45 +0100 , "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
>As such it would have been  superior  as  GURPS  lacks  a
>proper task system (yes,  I  know  someone  tried  inventing  one
>recently).

It should be noted that all "lacks a 'proper' task system" means
is that modifiers for roles aren't listed in "easy, hard, etc"
format.  I put a table for this in my GURPS Traveller article
_years_ ago but it never get that much attention because, frankly,
it not that big a deal....

(BTW. In most roleplaying terms a "task system" is something
that resolves tasks and so every game system that has fundamental
mechanic for resolving events ("tasks") has a "task system".
In GURPS it is roll 3d6 against skill or attribute.)

I understand that some people don't like GURPS (every game has
people that don't like it).  But I think this attitude that you
have to trash GURPS because it isn't MT (or CT or TNE or whatever)
and because SJG isn't GDW isn't a product of our better natures.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:31:55 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: AveNelso@aol.com <AveNelso@aol.com>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller


>I think the real problem with democracy in Traveller isn't travel time, so
>much as it is shear mass of people.   If each world gets a representative,
>that's 10,000 reps.  Each one of these representatives "represents"
anywhere
>from a few thousand to 10,000,000,000 people.

Only if the system works in the same manner as a modern day democracy. Any
number of intermediary delegates can be inserted between the planetary level
and the Imperial level. Perhaps every world wouldn't get a representative,
especially if the system is based on population. Perhaps a bloc of several
worlds might get a representative.

>Can your really have an
>accountable, representative official who takes into account the needs of
>10,000,000,000 people?

Probably not. Can you really have a representative official who takes into
account the needs of 100 people, 1,000 people? 1,000,000 people? It's dicey,
at best, even with 100 people. That doesn't go far enough to prove why it
would be a problem in the Imperium.

On the other hand, you can have an accountable, representative official who
takes into account the needs of a world or a group of worlds. The dynamics
are entirely different, and much more workable.

>And if he is only one of 10,000 representatives, how
>much real voice do the people have?

The proportional amount that they should have in such a situation. That
actually sounds rather interesting to me. The political process in a "senate
city" would be utterly fascinating.

>Democracy at this level would really
>be a sham, an image or a convenient fiction.


I still don't see why it has to be any of the above.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:34:04 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller


>What about online democracy?  If everyone has net.access, and the
>representatives are obliged to vote as their constituents direct, this
>might actually work-- mightn't it?  Of course, decisions would be made
>slowly; one couldn't respond to an immediate threat this way.


There was an old White Dwarf article, written by Andy Slack I think, that
detailed a government like the one you are talking about. It was on the
world level and the dynamics of it were fascinating.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:38:56 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller


>A true democracy requires a well educated, caring population.
>Even if *everyone* had net.access, it's another step to get them to vote.
>Can you see planetary LEOs rounding up 'vote dodgers'  to do community 
>service work for failing to vote?


Yeah, I wonder what would happen if Virus got loose in the system.

"Mickey Mouse wins by a landslide!"

>It's interesting to watch what Congress does now near election 
>times.  Those overnight polls can drive or kill legislation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:36:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 

> What about online democracy?  If everyone has net.access, and the
> representatives are obliged to vote as their constituents direct, this
> might actually work-- mightn't it?  Of course, decisions would be made
> slowly; one couldn't respond to an immediate threat this way.

Given the communications lag over the expanses of the Imperium, this
would probably be so slow as to be unworkable...remember, this is an
Empire where an entire war was once fought and finished before the
central authority heard about it and responded. (The Fourth Frontier
War).

Such a democracy also heavily skews Imperial policy towards the lightly
populated worlds, unless there's a population-based representation,
where many of the low-pop worlds will have their votes combined into a
single representative.

Remember the Imperium is big, really, REALLY  BIG! 

Let us posit, forinstance, a representative for each world with a
population greater than 10,000.

That's 9642 representatives, a huge, unweildy assembly.

Those representatives represent anywhere from 10,000 to 90,000,000
sophonts, clearly tilting political power to a minority of the
population.

So let's divvy 'em up evenly, 10,000,000 people per rep, which equals
1,978,921 representatives. This is the entire population of a large
city. 

We, in the US have trouble getting 465 representatives to agree on
something (or _anything_ it, would seem, sometimes). If you cut down the
number of representatives, then they become more and more remote from
their constituency...soon you have single people representing dozens, or
hundreds of systems.

You can see the problem of centralized democracy right away.

This is the same conundrum that Cleon I faced...way back when the Sylean
confederation was a simple handful of worlds, yet already their Senate
had broken down as an effective government.

Like it or not the most effective way to maintain a central government,
with the requisite flexibility needed in an expanse the size of the
Imperium is to have decentralized governance. Two ways spring to mind
immediately. One, a feudal system, where lower nobles are free to act in
their own authority, yet bound by ties of oath to higher authorities.

The second, a vast standardized bureacracy, such as Confucian China, or
the Vilani Ziru Siirka. That was known to have failed, because vast,
standardized bureacracies cannot react in anything resembling speed to
new problems. VSB's tend to carry big hammers, and everything looks like
a nail.

More to the point, however, is that none of this really much impacts the
great majority of the population at all. 

The old truism 'All politics is local' applies...the government that
affects the people the most is not the Imperium, but who the local
dog-catcher is. This is the area where the Imperium has no control. You
can have flourishing democracies at this level, just as you can have
flourishing *-cracies, for each of the government UWP codes ;-)

Whether that local government is tied into the Imperium or not is
immaterial. So long as the basic rules of the Imperuium are obeyed, and
the (on a percapita basis) trivial Imperial taxes flow into the
Emperor's coffers, the Imperium has less effect on people's day-to-day
lives than the UN has on the average American's.

obTrav: Except, of course, for those who think the Emperor is flying
black helicopters full of Imperial shock troops around in a secret
effort to rule despotically :-)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Chris Seamans wrote:

> 
> From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
> 
> >A true democracy requires a well educated, caring population.
> >Even if *everyone* had net.access, it's another step to get them to vote.
> >Can you see planetary LEOs rounding up 'vote dodgers'  to do community 
> >service work for failing to vote?
> 
I wish we could do that now.

> Yeah, I wonder what would happen if Virus got loose in the system.
> 
> "Mickey Mouse wins by a landslide!"
> 
I once voted for Sailor Moon.  The other candidates were much worse.  She
would have done a better job than the guy that won.

> >It's interesting to watch what Congress does now near election 
> >times.  Those overnight polls can drive or kill legislation.
> 
Very true, very true.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:47:00 -0700
From: "Tom" <tbergman@brawleyonline.com>
Subject: DGP question (OT)

Howdy all...

In MT Journal #4, Joe Fugate talked about a new game that DGP was working
on.  There were even ads for it.  What happened to the mysterious "A.I." ??
Anyone know?

ObTrav:  What kind of products/ideas/events would there be that get alot of
hype and promotion with the 3I at large waiting with bated breath...  only
to have it never happen?  What would their reaction be?  "Ho Hum...  they
failed us again..."  or general rioting on large pop worlds?

Oriontwin
orion 0609 C36AA84-A hi- va+ vi+ so++ A633
tc+ tm+ tn t4+ tg-- ru+ he+ 3i!(+) c+ jt- st++ pi+ ta ge

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:50:54 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: On the subject of Interstellar Democracy

So far, people have really been laying into the concept of an interstellar
democracy in Traveller. What I find interesting is how everybody seems to be
making new rules. It seems that people think the basic interstellar
government system would have to change drastically in order to accomodate
it.

The whole discussion is an offshoot of the debate concerning a democratic
system in the Regency, and it's interesting that the idea Nilsen presented
is entirely different than the ones that people seem to be bringing up.

The Regency system, if I remember correctly, was one in which many nobles
were replaced by the will of the people. Some weren't. All discussions of
representative democracies, Athenian democracies and other democracies
aside, what makes this system so obnoxiously unattractive.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:49:58 +0100
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bagpipes (was: Re: Gurkhas - Correction)

In message <3.0.5.16.19990930093249.38bfdc10@pop.mindspring.com>,
"Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes
>You said it!  There's nothing that the massed pipes and drums to make you
>want to go invade something, preferably northern England.
>
>My Marines use pipes.  Mostly it's a tradition thing, but the effect pipers
>in a small starship have on Naval crew is a big plus.

Probably make them board the enemy and go hand to hand just to get away
from the noise.
- -- 
Martin Hardgrave

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:39:24 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions

In a message dated 10/5/99 6:19:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 
Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com writes:

<< You missed off: DGP never died and no one  ever  heard  of  Roger
 Sanger.
  >>

Don't know whether to laugh or cry...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:49:21 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: MT and TNE designs

>You're not travelling to the UK soon are you?  I'd sell you mine but
>suspect that transport costs/damage would be too much.  I'd love to get my
>C-64 out of the attic but the power supply blew up and I've not been able
>to find a new one.

I've got one of those metal power supplies you can easily open and service.
But I think I have other Commodore "bricks" stored somewhere too.  Right now
all I have ia a marginally functional C-64 with power.  (the keyboard is
half shot)



___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:52:56 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: MT and TNE designs

>I know several people that still have their old C-64 stuff. Some are
>willing to sell.

OH?!  Please do tell!


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:53:52 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: MT and TNE designs

>I specoifically mentioned the 1541 because the 1581 *can* produce PC
>readable disks. The 1541 can't.

Yeah, I saw that in someone else's post.  My mistake.


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:57:12 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: MT and TNE designs

>Have you tried pawn shops? The pawn shops around here have scads of
obsolete
>computer equipment. If you can prove to them that they'll never get the
>price they put out for it (they almost always lack a sense of what they've
>got is really worth) you can sometimes get a real deal.

That's the hard part.  In a pawnshop once I saw a Hewlett-Packard 150
computer (proprietary 8088) with a 15meg hard drive.  The pawnshop guy had a
3,000 price on it and a "SALE!" sticker on it dropping it down to $1,000.

If any of you know what this system is, you'll be laughing hard about now.


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:09:44 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

In a message dated 10/5/99 9:38:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< Like it or not the most effective way to maintain a central government,
 with the requisite flexibility needed in an expanse the size of the
 Imperium is to have decentralized governance. Two ways spring to mind
 immediately. One, a feudal system, where lower nobles are free to act in
 their own authority, yet bound by ties of oath to higher authorities. >>

What about Federated government? You can have republican style governance, 
where the lowest level is that which a proportionate representative can have 
reasonable contact with its' constituents, and the upper level would be that 
were time lag prohibits flexible response to crises. Call it oh, a half 
million sophonts. A bicameral legislature prevents skews toward high or low 
population worlds, and multiple layers of government (planetary, subsector, 
sector) help to streamline matters (keep appropriate legislation to 
appropriate levels - who wants the sector congress to debate the water rights 
on Regina for example...).

    I think that this breaks down for foreign policy though ... as per the 
4th. FW. In this case, a strong executive ruling through bureaucracy works 
well (whether Feudal or civil service...). The key is APPROPRIATE governance. 
Keep Domain and Imperial rule limited to foreign policy and overall Imperial 
policy and guidelines. As long as there is local oversight (voting every ten 
years or so for an elected moot to pick a chief executive and have the locals 
control the amount of the moneys contributed to the Imperial budget for 
example), you have a doable modified republican style decentralized Imperium. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:12:22 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Democracy and Traveller

In a message dated 10/5/99 9:38:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< obTrav: Except, of course, for those who think the Emperor is flying
 black helicopters full of Imperial shock troops around in a secret
 effort to rule despotically :-) >>

Hey! I'm from Nevada; I resemble that remark...:-). I swear Nevada must have 
the highest per capita level of conspiracy freaks in the U.S. Probably has to 
do with 85% of the state being owned by the feds...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:21:51 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: DGP question (OT)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Tom <tbergman@brawleyonline.com>
> In MT Journal #4, Joe Fugate talked about a new game that DGP was working
> on.  There were even ads for it.  What happened to the mysterious "A.I."
??
> Anyone know?


Still born.  They ran out of time and money, went well beyond deadlines and
it never saw the light of day.  They hyped it for two years.  I understand
that there may be some outstanding bills for the project even now, twelve
years later.  Anyone know if Sanger got AI, too?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The TRAVELLER Domain
http://www.downport.com
Colin Michael, WebDev

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 22:06:41 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Downport trouble... 

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
> > No doubt residents of various Imeprial worlds will feel that the peculiar,
> > well, peculiarities, of their neighbouring worlds are laughable, leading
> no
> > doubt to the occassional use of armed mercenary force to make the other
> guys
> > stop laughing, if only for a moment.
> 
> Um... so does this mean we here in Maine are in danger of being invaded by
> donut-eating hockey players with a grudge?  Or should I expect to see yet
> another Tim Horton's going up on Main Street?

Heh.  They're just sharpenning their skates over there, looking south for 
cheap cigarettes and gas.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1161
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe
"local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
